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| Radio Bonking? http://www.interceptradio.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4084 |
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| Author: | K7CAR [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Radio Bonking? |
Did anyone happen to catch the last 2 days of the Ron and Don Show on KIRO radio? They had Dave Reichert on yesterday talking about the problems they are experiencing with the radio systems "bonking" at critical times. The officer that shot and killed Maurice Clemmons reported to his review board he tried 3 times and couldn't get through. Ron and Don are on a crusade to "stir up action and fix the problem" Is this "bonking" more prevalent in digital systems or also happening in the Moto analog? The "radio bonking" term was new to me. Does this tie in with the move to 700mhz? After doing a Google search I ran across this http://www.firehall.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4901 forum thread about the CREST system in BC. Sounds like they keep throwing money at the problem. Maybe it's working to their satisfaction after 5 years? Having recently returned back to scanning after 10 years I haven' kept up on all the systems out there, so sorry if this subject has been beat to death. I see another thread on a new system. If a 37 million system isn't working who's to say the new one would? Motorola must have some very fine sales people! :) |
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| Author: | KE7JFF [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
When I was up in Victoria in March, it sounded like Vic PD went to P25 conventional using the voice channel frequencies of the trunking system. I heard the control channel but it sounded like nothing was affiliated with it nor I was tracking anything. I only figured out they went to conventional when I was doing signal stalker. |
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| Author: | luminoxs [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
Ya... The Ron and Don show like to turn nothing into something, stir the pot and over hype things....So they do what they do best...Ratings. A "bonking" with an 800Mhz system means that the radio didn't get access when the PTT was pressed. That can come from poor/no signal to not a authorized user to system is busy. What’s interesting is that if you were to hear the recordings, you hear dead air at least two different times. That to me means that the system was busy/no free channels. When the system was busy, you will get an bonk. Then when there is a free channel the radio will sound a permit to talk tone and then you can rekey the radio for access. Even though it was at night, maybe some of the channels were taken down for service. Who knows...Just an theory I have. The King Co. radio techs can go right into the trunking controller and see exactly what happened by looking at the log... That brings another point, when rebanding happens the un-rebanded radios will only get half of the channels available until 100 percent of the rebanded has been completed. |
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| Author: | Vizwar [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
When you push the PTT on a trunking radio the TX LED starts to flash, each flash is data requesting to access the system. Once granted (the radio is instructed as to which repeater pair to transmit on, etc (at the same time other radios on the same talkgroup are instructed to monitor the same pair)) the user is then given the que to talk sound. A "Bonk" is the slang term developed by end-users to describe the alert given to the user after the preprogrammed amount of data attempts to access the system (per PTT) have all failed. The data "handshake" must occur in order for voice traffic to occur. The term has been around in this region as long as the 800 system has. Imagine it this way, say you're standing at the same location where Clemons was encountered and instead of a SmartZone system, the agency was using a conventional two-frequency pair repeater. You try to transmit but your call isn't heard because at your location the input frequency is poorly received at the repeater site. You're SOL, you have to move and try again. Now... *poof!* you're holding an XTS2500 (don't you wish it was that easy?). You key up, but the data request sent on your data channel input frequency is not heard for the same reason, poor location for the input. *Bonk*. You key again but now you have the chance to get a different site and/or a different repeater in the trunk thus a different repeater frequency pair and thus a chance at better reception, without relocating. But... sometimes it's takes a few tries. This same example can be used for poor input voice quality but the radio is less likely to try a different site because it may still be able to hear the control channel. Rekeying the radio though will give you a chance at a different repeater in the trunk. This is why you may hear someone key up, sound like crap and then the very next key up they sounds great. |
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| Author: | radioactive [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
Bonking also occurs when one field user tries to transmit when another field unit is transmitting. This happens frequently when there is a high level of radio traffic on a specific talkgroup. One can imagine the number of officers trying to transmit they are responding to assist the officer requesting back-up. |
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| Author: | SpudGunMan [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
bonking also can happen when you get drunk and your XYL wants kids and you wake up saying.. where are my pants. |
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| Author: | Jim [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
SpudGunMan wrote: bonking also can happen when you get drunk and your XYL wants kids and you wake up saying.. where are my pants. Is that what they call that now ? :D " the B Word " :chaingun: |
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| Author: | K7CAR [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
Thanks for all the info. I'm sure average joe cop has no idea that he has to move a few feet or keep re txing so he gets a new slot. It should work no matter where or what you are doing. I would at least hope! You would think with the communication technologies we have at our disposal they could come up with a fool proof system. 37 mil evidently wasn't enough. Go back to analog VHF!....... :) |
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| Author: | N7QOR [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
K7CAR wrote: Thanks for all the info. I'm sure average joe cop has no idea that he has to move a few feet or keep re txing so he gets a new slot. It should work no matter where or what you are doing. I would at least hope! You would think with the communication technologies we have at our disposal they could come up with a fool proof system. 37 mil evidently wasn't enough. Go back to analog VHF!....... :) Around here it was analog UHF, and it worked VERY WELL! |
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| Author: | dste [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
N7QOR wrote: K7CAR wrote: Thanks for all the info. I'm sure average joe cop has no idea that he has to move a few feet or keep re txing so he gets a new slot. It should work no matter where or what you are doing. I would at least hope! You would think with the communication technologies we have at our disposal they could come up with a fool proof system. 37 mil evidently wasn't enough. Go back to analog VHF!....... :) Around here it was analog UHF, and it worked VERY WELL! I suppose the only thing he could have done more was to push the little button on his radio and go EMER. |
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| Author: | N7QOR [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
I listened to the recordings that were posted to the Seattle Times website. As mentioned above, there were several instances of "dead air". Generally speaking, this means a channel WAS provided at some point. The real answer would be actual activity logs, showing each ptt request and the result (goto / busy / etc...). (sorry, "goto" is a term from the LTR world, I am sure there is a M term for channel grant/assignment) |
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| Author: | the Outlaw [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Radio Bonking? |
One thing on this that kinda got to me was when they asked for a secure channel on the approach, a swat guy gets on at a critical moment. |
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