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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:08 pm 
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nickcarr wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-RDU4100-10-Channel-Water-Resistant-Business/dp/B000Y357Y2
No turkey talk


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:17 pm 
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N7QOR wrote:
Isn't this inner web stuff amazing?

I go to Intwrcept Radios website and get magically transported to the radio ripoff forums!!!

Wow...stop posting from your flip phone.

Infraction issued.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:49 am 
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Interesting dilemma. A few thoughts...

WiFi is a waste. People have tried tweaking WiFi for voice-grade comms/roaming/battery life (WMM-PS, etc) and while the technology bench tests halfway good it doesn't achieve the reliability you would expect from a radio system.

VHF is a waste if you want to do campus in-building without a repeater. 450mhz at a minimum or 800mhz. Go analog as blips of fade/static can be tolerated by the ear compared to what a few bit errors sound like. This is why people hate digital radios aside from the garbage audio due to poor sample rate/resolution/compression. This mess will come into play as you will be stretching the limits of the radio without a repeater in the mix.

Keep your encryption capability but consider it for secondary use. It might be worth considering non-P25 technologies to accomplish this.

If you can find/license a used 800mhz analog repeater within your budget it would make things a lot easier. Analog/digital is always an entertaining debate but remember the usability and quality of your end result is more important than how you got there.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:38 am 
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N7QOR wrote:
I believe Virgina Mason was on UHF last time I was there, but that's been a couple years
End of this post


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:47 am 
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FWIW, Good Sam Hospital in Puyallup used UHF repeated when I was there, with rolling code voice inversion. I was there once and asked why they were "encrypted"; the security supervisor told me it was for HIPAA reasons ::rolleyesemoticonhere::

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:50 am 
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800 is still wideband so it would have decent signal to noise. Issue would be the noise can happen quick, i.e. signal attenuates quicker than 450.

I don't know about other makes but Motorola 800 models can't be bought as cheap as some decent 450 portables. You could do a repeater solution and start out with something like a Motorola BPR40 portable. They are 4 watts and 16 or 8 channel capable but no encryption.. A repeater solution is however going to take most of that $5000 with licensing, getting an antenna in place somewhere, and equipment. Id steer away from anything digital as analog radios will be cheaper and coverage will be better.

Look around for a GR1225. Some models actually came with a mobile duplexer and don't take up much room at all. They tend to work for many years if the final is turned down from full. At least this would give you time to work some more money from the financial side.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:59 am 
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chpalmer wrote:
I'd steer away from anything digital

Where's my shocked face??!!!
;)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:07 am 
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Atomic Taco wrote:
nickcarr wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-RDU4100-10-Channel-Water-Resistant-Business/dp/B000Y357Y2
No turkey talk

Why not? Works well in a lot of businesses. It's not 'encryption' by today standards but it deters 99.8% of most scanner listeners.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:12 pm 
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NEWS FLASH. Sorry I haven't been tending to the thread I started.

Tested two VHF XTS2500s today in P25 and analog. No surprises, didn't work any better than the XPR6550s. Thought it was worth a try.

Talked to our IT department about the Icom Voip radios. They we're pretty skeptical about it. They seemed worried about the medical staff ASCOM voip phones somehow interfering with our radios and vice versa. And we have literally 0 wifi coverage in our parking lots and outbuildings such as facilities, pediatrics, family medicine, amongst others. Supposedly adding some outdoor WAPs isn't too expensive and could come out of ITs budget especially if i try to sell the idea to the board of directors as a solution for not only security but IT, facilities, housekeeping, food service, etc. They also said that our wifi system will not work in a power outage. I know what you're thinking. "if anyone should have UPS on their wifi its a hospital" and its also possible that our wifi system will not accommodate the needs off continuous ptt voip.

I also heard that the icom radios can only use the 192.168.x.x. IP subnet which may pose an issue on our system and require access points that are capable of multiple ssid (network ID) in order for the radios to vlan properly.

I think our best bet may be a mototrbo single site system (TDMA) with a distributed antenna system with security on one time slot and other departments on the other. And see if the board of directors will throw some more money at a system that benefits more than just security department. And if a single repeater doesn't do the trick, we could do two sites and use IP site connect for roaming. And yet another option would be to offer up some space on our roof to our local radio shop (big shop chain) to expand their 60+ site mototrbo connect plus system (trbowest) in exchange for some kind of deal on subscriber radios and fees. It may be an attractive offer to them i.e. better local coverage and a decent sized new customer.

I talked to a representative of said radio shop today. I have a meeting scheduled next week to discuss all of these options.

I was hoping i could make a more simple option work such as simplex with some 800mhz XTS2500s with ADP ENC. But according to some people on other forums, there is no way i could get a part 90 license for an 800mhz freq for only 4-5 radios. That true?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Wilrobnson wrote:
chpalmer wrote:
I'd steer away from anything digital

Where's my shocked face??!!!
;)


Mototrbo talks through anything nearby with an audio amplifier much like some cell phones do, but with a bit more punch.

But more than anything is the cost. Staying analog it could be done under 5000. Nobody has proven to me yet any benefit of going digital over analog for voice other than to raise some profits.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:10 pm 
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code3kid wrote:
according to some people on other forums, there is no way i could get a part 90 license for an 800mhz freq for only 4-5 radios. That true?
If it is, license 40-50 radios.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:21 pm 
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Thank Nextel for locking up the 800 MHz band. 800 repeaters are damn expensive as are 800 MHz HT's/subscribers/portables whatever you want to call them.

Best bet would be UHF. VHF is worthless unless you're not in a building. Digital works better in the fringe, especially 6.25 KHz NXDN. TDMA leaves some to be desired in the audio quality arena but is more cost effective.

We talked earlier, I'll set you up next week.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:41 pm 
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jrw14493 wrote:
VHF is worthless unless you're not in a building.

Multicare in Tacoma built out a fantastic VHF repeated system that covered Tacoma General, Mary Bridge, down to St Joseph's, as well as (by virtue of being atop a hill) a lot of northern Pierce County. Security, housekeeping, engineering, elevator techs, valets, OEM, etc etc etc. Seemed like 99% coverage in building, even below-grade (I listened to them testing it for awhile before it went live). No clue if it was using DAS or what, however. I haven't listened in awhile despite living like 3 blocks from MB, but I think I recall seeing their emission designator change to DMR or something.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:35 am 
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Wilrobnson wrote:
jrw14493 wrote:
VHF is worthless unless you're not in a building.

Multicare in Tacoma built out a fantastic VHF repeated system that covered Tacoma General, Mary Bridge, down to St Joseph's, as well as (by virtue of being atop a hill) a lot of northern Pierce County. Security, housekeeping, engineering, elevator techs, valets, OEM, etc etc etc. Seemed like 99% coverage in building, even below-grade (I listened to them testing it for awhile before it went live). No clue if it was using DAS or what, however. I haven't listened in awhile despite living like 3 blocks from MB, but I think I recall seeing their emission designator change to DMR or something.


Lots of leaky line? Was this pre-narrowband? Hospitals and schools are especially bad for VHF. We have 4 different schools in different districts running UHF that have purchased radios a few years ago and have worked fine up until this last year. After doing PM's on the radios and not finding any issues, the only thing we can conclude is as these districts start handing out all these wireless devices and install WAPs all over the place to support them, they raise the noise floor 20-30dB in some cases and kill our little 5 watt portable at the other end of the building. It's not so much a power issue as it is the characteristics of VHF. Concrete, rebar, corrugated metal etc. found in new commercial construction is also a killer.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:09 am 
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jrw14493 wrote:
Lots of leaky line? Was this pre-narrowband?

No idea, I've never been to a Multicare facility for anything other than a transport or as a patient.

Pre and post narrowband.

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