BTW. Here's a pic of the truck to get an idea.
Single CH, dual band Orion setup..
In the middle of the install, still finishing things up....
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Antenna dilemma |
Well.... In trying to keep my installs low profile.... I've come into a dilemma. Vehicle is a 2004 F150. Mounting location is passenger side fender where existing FM antenna is, I'll be removing the antenna and modifying the existing mount for either SO-239 or 3/8x24 (NMO is too large to fit on mount area) I already have a Phantom Elite center of the roof for APRS, which is all but invisible from the street, and a 'sat/onstar' look-alike on the roof for GPS/800. Currently I'm running a 1/4 wave whip center of roof for VHF temporarily with UHF not being hooked up, but that will be replaced with the Phantom Elite when I get my dual band antenna setup. I have a few options.... None of which are good... 1. Go with a Sti-co disguise antenna. 500$ - shitty output - Looks EXACTLY like the factory antenna. 2. Go with 3/8x24 mount , replacing the factory FM mount/whip with 3/8x24 and 19" dual band antenna and center load 'loose wound' coil. First problem is 1/4 wave on VHF and 5/8 over 5/8 on UHF, which leads to problems because there is very little groundplane (being mounted on the edge of the truck), ~50$ - looks aftermarket but not enough to raise eyebrows - Good tx/rx but not great because of lack of groundplane. 3. Go with SO239 mount and an antenna like the Comet SBB5 which is 1/2 wave on 2m (which reduces/eliminates the need for a groundplane). Also replacing factory fm ant mounting hole. OBVIOUSLY aftermarket, and @ 39" and a wide base DEFINITELY something that would be questioned. About 60$, best TX, highest profile. 4. so239 mount fiberglass whip, dual band, looks like .. well.. a fiberglass whip.... definitely thicker, but could be played off as being factory... since the factory fm antenna mount has a shroud which encloses the base, meaning just the antenna would stick out, making it look somewhat factory. ~40$ ... ...presumably 1/2 wave on VHF because of 2.5db gain (stated), so similar in performance to #3 (theoretically) Thoughts? |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
BTW. Here's a pic of the truck to get an idea. Single CH, dual band Orion setup.. In the middle of the install, still finishing things up....
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| Author: | kb7dqh [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
WTF :oops: All that work to do a perfect install and you can't get a sheet of plywood with a straight cut across the TOP :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: I know I am nitpicking :lol: (personally if you are trying to hide EVERYTHING a coat of flat black paint over the ply would hide that too :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ) so here is the deal on the antenna. Methinks number 4 is the "government work" choice, and believe it or not, balancing what you are trying to do there, the best compromise of the bunch based on appearance/price/performance, and not necessarily in that order... |
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| Author: | the Outlaw [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
Buy a Harley and cut the pipes off. |
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| Author: | chpalmer [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
What bands are you trying to cover? I use a Stico for my vhf. Not perfect but far from not good... And less than $300. As a shop we now use Laird exclusively for mobiles other than the Stico when necessary... |
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| Author: | SpudGunMan [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
good question on what bands your trying to work, looks like 2m? Im not trying to nitpick, but why are you trying to install something that "will not be questioned" where and what are you trying to accomplish that people would question your rig? I say you should just install em on the truck and fooy with this "wide base DEFINITELY something that would be questioned." comment either your licensed and legal to be on frequency or own a transmitting radio or your not. just having a "official looking radio" is enough to deter theft and you did a good job at hiding them.. I think the real issue here is trying to do something you legally shouldn't (in my assumption) makes me think of conversations with Day Wireless and shake my head at seeing a radio on LERN with a microphone attached. I have 3 antennas on my car and no one has ever or ever will give notice to anything related to antenna ... ever. having that moto on the dash is gonna get you questions not your antenna when you get pulled over. or whatever your up to there. as long as we dont see a blue light or a light/whale controller in the truck I think it looks nice. but I would also say you should paint that plywood black looks much more professional. |
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| Author: | jrw14493 [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
SpudGunMan wrote: good question on what bands your trying to work, looks like 2m? Im not trying to nitpick, but why are you trying to install something that "will not be questioned" where and what are you trying to accomplish that people would question your rig? I say you should just install em on the truck and fooy with this "wide base DEFINITELY something that would be questioned." comment either your licensed and legal to be on frequency or own a transmitting radio or your not. just having a "official looking radio" is enough to deter theft and you did a good job at hiding them.. I think the real issue here is trying to do something you legally shouldn't (in my assumption) makes me think of conversations with Day Wireless and shake my head at seeing a radio on LERN with a microphone attached. I have 3 antennas on my car and no one has ever or ever will give notice to anything related to antenna ... ever. having that moto on the dash is gonna get you questions not your antenna when you get pulled over. or whatever your up to there. as long as we dont see a blue light or a light/whale controller in the truck I think it looks nice. but I would also say you should paint that plywood black looks much more professional. Ummm....yea...LEO's know what LERN is. If they pull you over and see a radio with a mic attached that says "LERN" plan on no longer being unnoticed. Even if you tell them you've taken the TX side out (that'll probably loose them) I'm sure they'll wonder wtf is going on. :horse: |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
2m/440 tx, everything else RX only. I know a crap ton about the commercial market, and although i'm a ham I'm not that familiar with the ham market because I have never used anything other than NMO and St-Co and ran nothing but commercial equipt. It's a dual band Orion setup. UHF/VHF with SS2000 controlled by the Orion as well, no siren tones are programmed, just AH, and controls other functions such as the arrowstick, concealed strobes, etc. It's a demonstration vehicle. The purpose of it is to maintain capability (gonna be adding an MDC as well), while maintaining a stock look as possible. I do have an HHC that I can use, but the button layout doesn't allow for versatile programming, considering 4 buttons are instantly taken by the traffic director. If you look at my sig, you'll see I specialize in low profile traffic enforcement, surveillance, bait cars, etc etc. I'm not worried about getting pulled over. I don't drive like an idiot, and even if I did get pulled over, I have nothing to hide, it's for legitimate business use (and maybe I'd get a sale out of it too! lol) I got rid of my CV as even that wasn't low profile enough. And about the wood.. Yeah, it's crooked... I was rushing, with a crappy blade.... It'll ALL be hidden by the back seat when it's done anyway, the only thing being visible is the CH and speaker. The mic line is routed THROUGH the dash, and pops out underneath (no wire hanging like in the pic) where it's mounted with a Bracketron vehicle specific dash mount... I'll get pics later. The whole purpose is to be able to drive through 'crackhead alley' without getting a sideways glance.. I also plan on running BS magnetic signs of 'Joes construction' or some crap to give it an added layer of misdirection, but those will not be on all the time, only when it's being shown. |
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| Author: | jrw14493 [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
How many of these "covert" type vehicles have you sold and to who? |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
jrw14493 wrote: How many of these "covert" type vehicles have you sold and to who? That would defeat the purpose, would it not? Most of my work was back east, in MD, where I moved from a few years ago. Out here it's been few and far between.. Mostly conventional installs for the individual officer.. |
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| Author: | chpalmer [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
As someone who specializes in this particular art.. I have to say Ive never had to build myself a vehicle to sell myself... Generally my customers have always enjoyed showing off their "rides" to other interested agencies... They have tracked me down after the look see... But if you must... If you really must have a hidden antenna system you are going to have some loss at some point. Run quarter wave antennas and paint them black. Stico does a dual band that will do what you want. Yes its spendy. Stico does make other solutions. Yes they are expensive. Read the instructions and their stuff will perform. Dont follow directions and their stuff wont as well. There are others but Im most familiar with Stico. Top solution will work the best. Bottom solutions will help sell your product if that is really your intent. Its a tax write off. Spend it- Get over it. If your really that good you wont have to worry about it anyway. |
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| Author: | jrw14493 [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
TechnoWeenie wrote: jrw14493 wrote: How many of these "covert" type vehicles have you sold and to who? That would defeat the purpose, would it not? Most of my work was back east, in MD, where I moved from a few years ago. Out here it's been few and far between.. Mostly conventional installs for the individual officer.. I suppose it would defeat the purpose...how many people would you expose by giving up your secret? |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antenna dilemma |
jrw14493 wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: jrw14493 wrote: How many of these "covert" type vehicles have you sold and to who? That would defeat the purpose, would it not? Most of my work was back east, in MD, where I moved from a few years ago. Out here it's been few and far between.. Mostly conventional installs for the individual officer.. I suppose it would defeat the purpose...how many people would you expose by giving up your secret? I already answered the question... Most of my work for agencies was back east... out here it's been mostly individual officers' cars... A very small portion of my work involves no-profile installs....Most of it is conventional .... But I specialize in it.... Just found out that #4 (fiberglass) was 2.15dbi, which means probably 1/4 wave, not 1/2 wave..... Can't get the manufacturer to return my messages... It does have a 239 mount instead of 3/8x24 so logic would dictate that it needs the ground for it's coil for a proper match.. So one would think it's 1/2 wave but 2.15dbi=0dbd = unity = 1/4 wave....... I think, anyway.... I don't wanna do business with a company who won't return messages anyway.... So it probably has the same performance (and larger profile) as/than #1... Looks like that might just get scratched too.... |
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